May 25, 2007

Randy and Paula White are Vipers!

by @ 2:19 am. Filed under Nuts on Parade

Reader Covina sent me an article that is so stunning, I honestly wish it was a work of fiction, but it’s not. I checked the URL and newspaper site, hoping to see that they had converted from doing hard news stories to becoming a satirical site, but that’s not the case. They exposed so-called bishop Randy and so-called pastor Paula White so deeply, that no better term fits them than VIPERS and no father would call them his own but Satan. Pray they repent of the evil doctrine they spread and the terrible deeds they’ve done. I’ll quote some of the article here, but you won’t know all of the story unless you read the whole thing. (I’m not going to talk about how they devoured a widow here, but it’s in the article.) And articles like this sometimes don’t stay posted for free at the newspaper’s site forever, so you might want to save a copy for sharing with lost souls who follow these nuts.

Of Faith, Fame & Fortune – Tampa Tribune – May 20, 2007

They travel in a $1.9 million business jet. They own a home they purchased for $2.1 million on Bayshore Boulevard and a $3.5 million Trump Tower condo in New York. Randy rents a waterfront villa in Malibu, Calif.

At the foundation of it all is Without Walls, a church that claims 23,500 members on two campuses and nearly $40 million in donations and other revenue last year. It, too, has undergone a transformation. Appearances and money – giving it and getting it – have become a focus.

And problems have arisen:

?One elderly church member said she was left with a depleted savings account, a promissory note and a broken contract to be cared for “for life.”

?Some businesspeople complained the Whites reneged on deals and didn’t pay their bills. In the past seven years, five lawsuits or claims of lien filed against the couple or the church were settled or resolved in court in the plaintiffs’ favor.One, an interior designer, said Paula, 41, used the church’s tax-free status to buy furnishings for her personal use.

?Randy, 49, who uses the titles “doctor” and “bishop,” does not have the degrees – earned and honorary – from the schools cited in his autobiography and on a former church Web site.

?In the past 18 months, more than 60 church associates, some on staff and some unpaid, have left or been “released” from their jobs.

“Mansions, big planes, money, fame. That’s what it’s all about now,” said the Rev. Hector Gomez, a former Without Walls staff member who left in 2000. “There are prophets for God, and there are prophets for profit. That’s the category they fit in.”

Without Walls, including its Lakeland campus and Paula’s broadcast ministry, took in $35 million in tithes and offerings last year, according to a recent audit by Lewis, Birch & Ricardo CPAs.

The audit was posted online last week – the first public accounting in the church’s history – after The Tampa Tribune requested a copy.

How much of the revenue goes to the Whites, the couple won’t say. The audit lists more than $5.5 million in salaries for 2006. The church declined to say how many employees were on the payroll.

Now some might claim the White’s perform charity work. Plenty of cults do charity work. Some claim the White’s preach the message of Jesus Christ. I beg to differ. They preach the message of a person they claim is about earthly riches and enriching those who give THEM money with material wealth. That’s not the message of the Lord Jesus Christ. I’ve seen Paula “preach” and I can’t say she’s a Christ centered minister. She can twist scripture to enrich and empower herself and make others feel they should seek the same. But notice how the White’s are not at all open about what is happening with all the money. Unlike a good steward with nothing to hide, the White’s fail to tell us who is getting the millions in salary money and they have been the targets of lawsuits.

Now although they bring in millions and don’t want to talk about it much, notice how they demand of their followers.

(from the article)

In January, the couple arrived for a service in their blue Mercedes sedan. They entered the sanctuary, a former warehouse at 2511 N. Grady Ave., watched over by a security contingent of solemn, beefy men wearing sunglasses and communication devices. Surveillance cameras kept watch from all corners.

“We deal with a lot of people coming out of a dark part of society,” Randy explained later. “We have to be careful.”

An assistant pastor took the stage first and talked about the importance of tithing, about how God’s law directs members to give a certain percentage of income to the church.

“Tithe is 10 percent of your gross income, not your net,” Randy has reminded congregants.

The old 10% scam at work. The apostles never claimed anyone had to pay 10% of anything. They wanted people to give freely as they individually felt led to give. No mandated percentages. But like so many, the White’s rely on a popular misteaching in order to keep money flowing on the basis of godly fear. And if you notice, the White’s don’t make the pitch for cash themselves. Many of the pulpit pimps now have a crony work up the crowd to give money, so the pimps themselves are not caught on a recording saying the words themselves.

The couple told the crowd to rejoice that they had come on a special night; the Whites have gotten so busy, they rarely preach together anymore.

The collection plates were passed for three more offerings, one specifically “for the pastor.”

Not only do the White’s probably take a salary from the church, you’ll see later how they make money in their business deals, but they also have the church collect a special offering. This is just despicable. They roll in millions, while pressing people to give them money. People who cringe at the gas station prices they face when fueling up before they drive home are giving more money to millionaires and to top it off, they are lied to and told God will bless them for fattening up people that are already rich.

Without Walls is about 70 percent black.

You think that’s all the rich Black people in that part of Florida giving the White’s their money? Think again. People are being led to play God like a lottery ticket, but in the end there will only be losers, because the millionaires at the top keep everyone focused on material gain, ignoring the true riches of the spirit and the true reward of Heaven. I could say the White’s win by getting rich, but the truth is, their reward is that of losers, because the reward from Christ is so much greater and eternal.

Gomez, the former member who now leads the Relationship Enrichment Center, another Tampa church, said he witnessed “more manipulation than inspiration” at Without Walls.

“A lot of drama inside and too much attention paid to getting exposure and publicity on the outside.”

The Whites preach prosperity gospel: The more you give, the more you get.

I’ve mentioned before, that some people who listen to prosperity doctrine do make money, but not because of “blessings”, but rather because they being focused on material gain do things to obtain material gain. Heathens can and do get rich. So it’s no “miracle” for someone to listen to earthly prosperity pep talks from the White’s and end up doing something to make money. Just the same, many who are never talked about, many are elderly people on fixed incomes give liars like the White’s their money and die never seeing the earthly gains they thought they would receive.

Most of the couple’s personal income comes from private businesses, including a real estate company, sales of nutritional supplements and speaking engagements, he said. Since 2005, two of their businesses have sold $871,000 in books, DVDs, CDs and clothing to the church, according to the recent audit.

Notice, they have for profit businesses, that profit from the church. Once these pimps make a big building, they make up businesses to offer various goods and services and milk the church coffers for more bucks. That’s what you really call getting paid coming and going! Notice there is no full total for all the money they make from all their private businesses.

So how much of the money coming in is going out to help the needy?

It paid more than $3.1million for “missions, outreach and benevolence” last year, according to the audit.

Notice, that’s less than the $5.5 million payroll and less than 10% of the $35 million collected last year. So although they do some things for the needy, it’s a lame effort considering the total collected.

The jet and the furnishings are part of a lifestyle that emphasizes appearances. That, too, may have led to problems.

In his autobiography, “Without Walls,” and on a 2002 Web profile, Randy said he enrolled at the former Lee College in Cleveland, Tenn., and earned a bachelor’s degree in ministerial studies and a master’s in divinity. He said he was awarded an honorary doctorate in humane letters from Virginia State University in Petersburg, Va.

Representatives from both schools said he did not receive degrees there, though Lee confirmed he took two classes.

According to documents Randy gave the Tribune in April, he received a doctorate of humane letters from Commonwealth Assistance Foundation Institute of International Studies in Alexandria, Va., in May 1993. An in-depth Internet search found no mention of the school. There is no telephone listing for it.

Randy does have a bachelor’s degree in theology from the International Bible Institute and Seminary, a correspondence school in Orlando.

That Randy White is not a very honest man.

The trappings are physical as well. Both the Whites have undergone cosmetic surgery, seeming to grow younger over the past five years.

“We’re on television, and you’ve got to look the part,” Randy said.

Talk about vanity! What verse in the Bible speaks of the apostles getting facials? The fact someone anointed Jesus’ feet one time was a major event. Jesus and the apostles set an example that was not based in vanity and extravagance. Oh, but like I said, the White’s are not ministering the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. They minister the gospel of Lord and Taylor (material gain).

Now regarding that Paula White.

When the Holy Spirit moves her, glamour gives way to spiritual fervor, her mouth rapidly moving as she speaks in tongues.

OK, so she claims to have the gift of tongues. I dare anyone to put an unbeliever who speaks another language in front of her and see if she uses her supposed gift of tongues to minister to them. All gifts of the spirit are apparent when in action and under the command of the person who possesses the particular gift(s), since the gifts were given to those who possess them them from God, through Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 14:32 (New King James Version)

32) And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

So when Mrs. White babbles as if she has the gift of speaking another language aka gift of tongues, she should have the ability to utilize this gift for ministry of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Only, you never see her ministering to anyone in another actual language, because she’s babbling to make people think she’s full of the Holy Spirit. You folks know I don’t play games with this one, because it’s heavily played upon. People are doing this and it’s not honestly the Holy Spirit. They can’t come close to using the gift of tongues for actual ministry. It only does one thing, especially when done in front of a public audience, it makes Christians look like babbling idiots. I keep telling you, the unbelievers use things that are out of order to poke fun and abuse the name of God.

If someone genuinely had the gift of tongues and was ministering in another language to unbelievers, that would be a great thing, but what we are seeing today is trickery.

Now back to Randy.
(from the article)

Randy seems to relish the role of funky, flawed and edgy preacher. He admits that he doesn’t pray before meals, bears several tattoos and enjoys wine. He said strip club owner Joe Redner should have been elected to the Tampa City Council in November (“He would have been good for this city”), and his gun collection includes an AK-47 automatic weapon.

Now there’s a lot of mess in that quote, but let’s center on the endorsement of the strip club owner. Is Randy randy? What the heck is a supposed preacher doing endorsing a booty bar owner for public office? And you’ll see later, his links to this guy are worse than this.

In January 2005, he was featured on the cover of Makes and Models Magazine, a glossy publication devoted to exotic cars, motorcycles and scantily clad female models. Associate editor Rodney Burrell, then a church member, wrote a glowing story about Randy called “Riding for Souls.” Although putting Randy on the cover – he stood posed next to his wife’s Mercedes SL55, valued at more than $100,000 – was Burrell’s idea, the church had to buy $7,500 worth of magazines for the privilege.

“I think they thought it would be a good witnessing tool,” Burrell said.

Other local ministers felt otherwise, he said.

“They wanted copies of the magazine. Not to read, but to pray over.”

Thank God there are still some good ministers in that area who took time to pray for that nut named Randy.

They acknowledge rumors have been flying for a long time about their relationship. Randy said the two are best friends and will always remain so.

Asked whether they’re contemplating divorce, he said, “No one can predict the future.”

That’s never a good sign! And this is the 2nd marriage for both of them. Of course a man with the title “bishop” is supposed to be a BLAMELESS MAN of 1 wife. Remember what Jesus said to the woman with more than one husband.

John 4:18 (New King James Version)

18) for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; in that you spoke truly.?

Hey, I didn’t ask Jesus to say that, but let’s not act like He never said it! I’m sure he’s trying to say some things to the White’s, but they can’t hear him while they are busy counting their money.

(from the time line in the article)

July 2006: Strip club owner and Tampa City Council candidate Joe Redner attends a Sunday service and speaks to the congregation.

Yes, Randy even allowed a smut king to address the church. Remember my little post about how politicians should be treated at church meetings?

October 2006: Donald Trump appears on Paula’s TV show, “Paula White Today.”

Well I guess we all should not have expected anything less. The real money changer and the fake preacher together on TV. And don’t forget that little get rich seminar they did together. When I first started writing about the evil known as the prosperity doctrine, I mentioned that Donald Trump should be a bishop if Christianity is about material gain, but I never actually thought that might come so close to being a reality.

9 Responses to “Randy and Paula White are Vipers!”

  1. healtheland Says:

    Yeah, this is one of the reasons why real saints need to do whatever we can to get the real gospel out there as much as we can.

  2. phillyflash Says:

    I saw this the other day and wasn’t in the least bit surprised. I’ve begun really concentrating on this bunch on my blog.

    IC, check out my post on women in church leadership and please tell me what you think.


  3. Benny Hinn Trick Exposed! Oh Yes, And More Paula White And Joel Osteen Stuff « Heal The Land With Spiritual Warfare Says:

    […] And oh, Paula White. Boy, this lady had me fooled so thoroughly that at one time I was actually buying her books and tapes to give them to other people having spiritual problems. Yesterday, I turn on some Christian TV network (I forget which) and she talks about this great time that she had at this conference where “great anointed messages were brought by ‘powerful men of god’” TD Jakes and Noel Jones. Men of god? Maybe … but which god? Not the God of the Bible that pre – exists eternally in the persons of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but of their oneness pentecostal modalism cult through which they are ordained as “bishops.” More on that later. This post will talk about the fraud and deceit perpetrated by Paula and Randy White (I list Paula first because even though Randy is the “head pastor”, he uses Paula as the front for his “ministry” because he knows that she can rake in more money in one week than he can in a year).  The most amazing part (to me) is Randy White claiming to have college degrees that he does not possess. […]

  4. Sex Sells, Especially In The Church: Paula White Making Merchandise Of Her Body « Heal The Land With Spiritual Warfare Says:

    […] Now what is really sad is that this sort of hero image idol worship has been going on in the secular arena for who knows how long. And you know that the vast majority of these teenage and pre – teen girls and boys who go out and buy these magazines, DVDs, and CDs produced by female celebrities based on their looks know that A) they are never going to look like that, B) they are never going to date or marry people who look like that and C) even if they did, it wouldn’t solve their problems or make them happy. They also know that these images are false anyway: the product of lighting, makeup, specially tailored outfits, plastic surgery, and even “photo illustrations” (tricks like the notorious TV Guide cover where they superimposed Oprah Winfrey’s head on another actresses’ body. And it appears that the Whites know all about false deceptive body images: according to this link, they have both had plastic surgery to appear younger. The doctor was probably recommended to them by their friend Joe Redner, area strip club owner who spoke at their church and they endorsed for a local election. So, they can be bought and sold by porn kings just like Rick Warren). So why do teenagers – and a growing number of adults – immerse themselves in what they KNOW is fantasy? As an opiate. If you are a teenager (or a maladjusted adult) you have difficulty coping with reality because you are not equipped to; the pain and the uncertainty are too much to bear. So you retreat into this little fantasy life where everything goes as you think it should. […]

  5. joelaviles Says:

    Though I do not endorse the Whites or their divorce, I do take offense to your comment about speaking in tongues: You folks know I don’t play games with this one, because it’s heavily played upon. People are doing this and it’s not honestly the Holy Spirit. They can’t come close to using the gift of tongues for actual ministry. It only does one thing, especially when done in front of a public audience, it makes Christians look like babbling idiots. I keep telling you, the unbelievers use things that are out of order to poke fun and abuse the name of God.

    If someone genuinely had the gift of tongues and was ministering in another language to unbelievers, that would be a great thing, but what we are seeing today is trickery.

    I was baptized in the Holy Ghost at age 15 and since then have spoken in tongues and ministered under the gifts of the Spirit. I say this not to boast, but to give glory to God for His manifestation for the edifying of the church according to 1 Corinthians 12. In my years of ministry I have souls come to Christ, people getting healed of sickness and delivered from demonic oppression, and many lives restored to the glory of His name.

    You cannot judge all believers who have this experiece just because some use the gospel for personal gain. That is not scriptural or spiritual for that matter. You must be careful in your thoughts and judgements, because the pharisees were very self righteous and sure that Jesus was operating under demonic influence when he cast out devils, not understanding this particular manifestation of His ministry, and Jesus warned them about blaspheming against the Holy Ghost. I agree that there is a lot of emotion and fallacity among many present day Charismatic christians and ministries, but you can’t generalize.
    I submit this comment with the utmost respect and love and with no desire to be combatant and controversial. May God keep us from false doctrine and spirits of error, and help us to obey His word in humbleness and love, for the glory of His name and the expansion of His kingdom. May the Lord bless you.

  6. IndependentConservative Says:

    joelaviles – Receiving the Holy Spirit occurs at the point one accepts Christ. It is not some mysterious later event.

    Prophesy is for the edification of the church, tongues for the unbeliever. You’ve said much, but you have not said that you’ve actually ministered to someone of a different language in their native tongue which you never knew before in your life. In particular, tongues was a sign to unbelieving Jews, Isaiah 28:11-12 is clear and affirmed in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22. The unbelievers the apostle Paul and others spoke to in an actual language known to humans on planet earth were Jews.

    You’re trying to prop up an activity that you are not doing to actually communicate the gospel in another human language, to someone in their native tongue. It’s simply an activity that makes you feel good and is not honestly the Holy Spirit.

    You speak of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, but I think you should work to avoid bearing false witness to a movement of the Holy Spirit, that is actually at best a movement of your flesh and possibly even activity of familiar and seducing spirits.

  7. nthomas Says:

    Independent Conservative, on the subject of speaking in tongues I beg to differ. Your misperception comes from falsely interpreting the scriptures. How did you come to the conclusion that speaking in tongues is just and only to minister to someon in a language you don’t know. That is wrong. Paul said in 1. Corinthians 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." Get it? Then, in verse 4-5 "He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
    I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying." Standing in front of the church babbling away in tongues without an interpreter is wrong but not speaking in tongues itself, because Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, wrote in verse 18 "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all". Did he mean he always ministered to someone else in another language? Of course not!

  8. IndependentConservative Says:

    nthomas – I was once misled on this subject like you. And perhaps I can offer clarity to your thoughts on this. You noted portions of 1 Corinthians 14, but you’ve left out key verses that offer proper context to all that you did cite. You cite verse 2 as if that means speaking to no one is a good thing. Actually this is Paul admonishing those who spoke in tongues for no useful good. As in, doing it without even ministering to anyone and void of any understanding. Even when done in private, to speak void of understanding is not a good thing, I’ll cover that later in this comment.

    You cited verses 4 and 5 as if self edification via this method is somehow a good thing. Again, you’re losing the point of the admonishment. Our walk with Christ is about DENIAL OF SELF AND HELPING OTHERS, Luke 9:23, Matthew 23:11. And it is made clear in verses 4 and 5, that we are to seek to EDIFY OTHERS, edify the church, not ourselves. You’ve avoided some key verses in this chapter that speak against your claims. Let’s start with verse 1:

    1 Corinthians 14:1 NASB

    1 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

    The point is to take focus from tongues that were being used with no understanding by anyone, to working in gifts that edify the church body.  Not someone engaging in self indulgence.

    1 Corinthians 14:6-9 NASB

    6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching? 7 Yet even lifeless things, either flute or harp, in producing a sound, if they do not produce a distinction in the tones, how will it be known what is played on the flute or on the harp? 8 For if the bugle produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle? 9 So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.

    You understand that someone speaking in tongues in public without anyone being able to understand is bad, but you feel for someone to speak in tongues to themselves saying things they DON’T UNDERSTAND is good. You see the issue when speaking to others, but are missing the point in terms of someone doing it alone. If it’s BAD for you to babble to others without them understanding, it’s of NO PROFIT for you to babble to yourself.  The real issue is that many are claiming the gift of tongues and don’t have it in the first place, so all they are doing is babbling.  See verse 7 above, if lifeless instruments do not produce a distinct sound, nobody knows what was played. If the bugle does not make a distinct sound, who knows to prepare for battle? If babbling to myself or others, if nobody understands what was said, it’s fruitless, to me if done alone and others if done in the open. As verse 9 notes, if you don’t know what you said, you just babbled in the wind. It is made clear that every language is a LANGUAGE ON EARTH WITH MEANING.

    1 Corinthians 14:10 NASB

    10 There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of languages in the world, and no kind is without meaning.

    So when someone babbles, it’s not some special language not undertood by any human, it’s common babble.

    1 Corinthians 14:11-13 NASB

    11 If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me. 12 So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the edification of the church. 13 Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.

    Again we see that if someone REALLY HAS THE GIFT OF TONGUES, WHICH THOSE CLAIMING TO HAVE THE FULL GIFT OF TONGUES TODAY HAVE NOT PROVEN BECAUSE THEY SPEAK NO ACTUAL LANGUAGE, they are to seek to be able to actually interpret. A real issue today is many claiming to speak in tongues when they don’t have the gift of tongues to begin with. They never display any ability to minister to any unbeliever of another language, ever.   I figure if anyone REALLY has the gift of tongues at this moment, they are doing ministry in some remote area, but the Lord grants gifts as He deems appropriate.  We can’t point to a single person who claims the gift of tongues, that we can ever record doing ministry with their claimed gift.

    1 Corinthians 14:14-15 NASB

    14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

    Any time a Christian prays, their spirit prays and the Holy Spirit makes intercesion through Christ.

    Romans 8:26-27 (New American Standard Bible)

    26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

    Notice the Spirit intercedes and He who searches hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit (Christ) intercedes for saints (to the Father) according to the will of God. So the fullness of the Trinity is in action every time a saint prays.  Whether or not the person praying is clear in what they said or not, the Spirit prays in intercession, given the person is trying to communicate with God, but we don’t know how to pray properly. This does not require or even involve tongues, it is the case with all beleivers when they pray. So praying in the Spirit does not require tongues. To pray in the spirit and with understanding is to simply pray knowing what I said. If I pray not knowing what I said, I’m thinking of things to God and the Spirit might make intercession, but there’s unnessesary activity void of understanding. The tongues are of no profit when nobody including the speaker knows what they said, even if in private alone.

    1 Corinthians 14:16-17 NASB

    16 Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified.

    So if I bless without anyone knowing what was said nobody can come in agreement with me. I can bless in the spirit by simply thinking the blessing, but nobody else benefits. Notice, I can bless in the spirit without someone else understanding, by knowing what I said in my own head and not vocalizing it for others to come in agreement. So I’ve given thanks and blessed and left everyone else out. Same can be done by someone speaking in tongues that nobody knows and in the head of the speaker they are thinking blessings. Really it’s meaningless babble, because the tongues have brought no benefit, whether done in public or private. Because even if done in private, there is no understanding.  So it’s best to do things and fully understand what you did.

    1 Corinthians 14:18-19 NASB

    18 I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; 19 however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.

    Paul, being an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, knew better than to do something unfruitful. So when he spoke in tongues IT WAS TO MINISTER and when he prayed he prayed in the spirit and with understanding. He prayed knowing exactly what he said. He did not speak in tongues to people who had no idea what he said and he didn’t speak in tongues alone not knowing what he said. He used tongues as the ministry tool that it really is. He said in verse 15, that he did things in the spirit and with understanding. To simply pray in tongues not knowing what he said would have left his mind UNFRUITFUL, that’s verse 14.  (Keeping in mind Paul, an apostle, actually had all the gifts including tongues, while many claim tongues today but don’t really have that gift.)

    1 Corinthians 14:20 NASB

    20 Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature.

    We must be MATURE in our thinking, not like children. Babies babble. The proof of tongues being a ministry tool to unbelivers I’ve already covered in my earlier comment.

    I know I shake folks up talking about this. That’s my full intent. Because for too long since the Azusa incident, too many saints are wasting time on something unfruitful.

    1 Corinthians 14:28 NASB

    28 but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.

    And to speak in tongues not knowing what was said is unfruitful, verse 14.  So best to speak and know what you said, verse 15.

    1 Corinthians 14:33 NASB

    33 for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

    God does not want us doing things that leave us in confusion.  Tongues without knowing what was said, even if done in private is nothing but confusion.  Because the minds of all hearers (even if the speaker is the only hearer) are left unfruitful. 

    All gifts of the spirit involve helping someone else in some way. The same with tongues.  It is a ministry tool.  God had Paul to give instruction on it and even those instructions are mishandled.  Either God desires people babbling in confusion in their closets, or he wants us to speak clearly, the the spirit makes intercession and the Father knows what we need before we ask.

    Matthew 6:7-8 NASB

    7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.

    8 "So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

    Hopefully this brings some clarity to your view of this matter.

  9. Caron Says:

    Please see “A Call for Discernment” by going to Justin is an evangelist and in addition to expository preaching, also holds seminars on the “Word of Faith” movement. He has cerebral palsy and concurs with the apostle Paul, “My grace is sufficient for thee.”

    To God be the glory!

    Caron Strong
    Los Angeles, CA

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